On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Never had a problem. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Both are lighted. A. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Different wiring projects call for different standards. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. Just not quite as much. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. To participate you must either login or register for an account. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. Can't plug into outlet? [:)]. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Sign-up for email today! QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. (10 lights X . Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. White and black are common selections. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. Ive talked about why here. It can be a great secondary power supply for lighted buildings, signals, and other accessories. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. In some cases. Effort. Join Today! Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! They run on three rail track. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. This is why my wife loves me so. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. Why Sign In? So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. What do I need to do that with? They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. M3103. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. Effort. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. What does a Lionel transformer do? Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. Controlled Magnetics has the manufacturing experience, knowledge, and facilities to repair a wide variety of electrical power transformers. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Extending the Reach of Your Power This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). RemembertheVeterans. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. Its a good transformer. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. Are you running command or conventional? Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Some people even find it fun. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. If they do, follow their recommendations. I will make a note here. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. CW80 Transformer. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. Mike to the forum. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. What size Lionel transformer do I need? With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). Three conductor wire is common for household use. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. This is interesting stuff. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. Take the hint. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. They are fun to have. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Our community is FREE to join. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. $2799. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! Price Received. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. no it isn't. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Transformer sizing for new systems For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice.