I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. digital front ends. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Stuart Smith finds out. The other issue is preference. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. DAVE is perfect for headphone system because you can save space and money of headphone amplifier. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? MQA decoding as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. It is a manual step which I forgot. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. Our digital testing has been done over the last 20 + years Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. You already have a very top tier DAC. Didn't like it at all. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Cheers @Stereophilus Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I'm doing this off the top of my head. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? That's just too money for the performance. It will kick your ass. It is my name after all! frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to Lots of time it those surpass any other digital choice. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. JavaScript is disabled. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. How hot does the Chord DAC get? You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. . Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. The world's largest high-end audio community. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. That's the negative to going my route I guess. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Thanks. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. Nice. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. connection to the dac chip. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). The best upgrade for Dave easy. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? I can see the problem with this unit. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. and build quality is also excellent. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. But dont take our word for it. What didn't you like about the Dave? There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. The Prime DAC Module. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. The video cannot be shown. Thanks. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. I found it big bold brash and dynamic but hard cold glary and fatiguing - all the old fashioned things I hated about early digital. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. Our publication is supported by its audience. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. But the majority of the time all 6 of The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. its that good. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. and our ears are completely different. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. Rori is definitely welcome. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. Others might disagree but these are my findings. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. I havent heard the Rockna. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. They both use FPGA for their decoding. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. What else should one expect? The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. I expected a lot better. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. Auction bid 7 150 25 . digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. We are Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. Roon Endpoint Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. But if you don't, what is your reference point? You must log in or register to reply here. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). The remainder Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. Click to expand. I still did not found better audio source. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. luxury apartment hotels paris. Is this what passes for high end? dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. Sit back and be immersed. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. Like x 5 List for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces.
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